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Post by Gossip Girl on Jun 17, 2008 9:18:54 GMT -5
I'm a Mets Fan, but I am not a fan of this move.
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Post by duceisinmyheart on Jun 17, 2008 9:55:52 GMT -5
who cares Yankees and Mets are both garbage.
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Play
All-Star
Los Angeles Clippers
Posts: 5,702
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Post by Play on Jun 17, 2008 10:35:19 GMT -5
who cares Yankees and Mets are both garbage. |
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Dave
All-Star
Ex-GM
Posts: 7,222
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Post by Dave on Jun 17, 2008 10:41:17 GMT -5
fuck you play
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Post by DB on Jun 17, 2008 11:26:29 GMT -5
i like willie, too bad it did not work out.
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 11:28:07 GMT -5
I'm a Mets fan and I'm glad this finally happened... good shit
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 11:53:35 GMT -5
The timing might be a little strange, but the situation was terrible. The fact that his job was on the line from a series to series basis made this almost inevitable... guess Minaya (who I'm not a fan of either) thought that he might as well do it now and get it out of the way.
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Post by Rocky on Jun 17, 2008 12:10:10 GMT -5
It's fucking pathetic. I can't believe anyone would support this. Willie wasn't a great manager (and I wasn't a Willie supporter), but doing it the way they did it makes them look like a joke of an organization. Really pathetic. Just awful.
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Post by Funky George! on Jun 17, 2008 12:11:17 GMT -5
The timing might be a little strange, but the situation was terrible. The fact that his job was on the line from a series to series basis made this almost inevitable... guess Minaya (who I'm not a fan of either) thought that he might as well do it now and get it out of the way. Don't think it was really something Minaya wanted to do. From everything I've heard, that wasn't the case. But he's a moron, and I think he panicked. He knew he had to do it, and with the Mets winning 3 of 4, he didn't want them to sweep the Angels. At that point, since Willie's firing was 100000% inevitable, he was afraid he'd get eaten alive for the timing. So it was damage control; they wanted to do it a few weeks ago before the Mets got hot, and here they had the chance to do it while still under .500 and they went ahead. It's one of the more pathetic things I've seen an organization do. They showed no class, no respect. It's pathetic. They fired him late so nobody on in NY could report it, and they did it out of fear. They dragged the fucking guy to California, brought Minaya in once more and made Willie manage under those circumstances. And he won. Just like when Minaya was breathing down his neck last time and they bounced back to beat the Dodgers. You don't fire a manager when he's won 3 of 4, you don't get shady and fire him at midnight on a road trip, and you don't fire a manager when you'd be over .500 if your closer hadn't blown 3 games in three weeks. The problem with the Mets is a matter of who they're bringing in, not how they're managed. What did they do to improve the bullpen? Did they invest a lot of their season in a starting pitcher who can't hold up for more than 20 starts a season? Wasn't Alou a projected starter? Schneider? Delgado? All Minaya's guys. They're either old, unhealthy, or they fucking suck. I was actually impressed the Mets were over .500 when Willie has to start a different lineup everyday because of injury, when Wright is struggling, when Reyes started like shit, when the pen was terrible, when Oliver was pitching like shit. I mean, look what they were getting out of Pelfrey. His development this year has been huge. This is pathetic. The Mets are NOT a great team at all. Yeah, it's nice that Delgado is heating up, but they don't have a great lineup to date, and they're old. The bullpen is shaky, the SP is so inconsistent. The Yankees have this problem every year: when you're old, you get banged up; when you rely on the top of your order, you run hot and cold; when your pitching is mediocre, you need to win games with your offense. It takes a good amount of baseball for that recipe to click. Don't blame Willie when he can't get a starter with an ERA in the 3s other than Johan, when the lineup doesn't have .300 hitters and the team is .500. I know it's tough to say that because of last year's collapse, but my God, Minaya is one of the worst GMs in baseball, and I know it won't save the season to fire him for putting them in this situation, but he's at fault for the injuries, the Olivers, the Delgados that have had a lot to do with the Mets sucking (and yeah, I recognize that both guys are playing a lot better...good, it's not Willie's fault they sucked, so that's more reason to not fire him: his players are finally performing). |
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Post by Funky George! on Jun 17, 2008 12:18:38 GMT -5
And yeah, I have never thought much of Randolph as a manager, but I never thought he was bad. He had a lot of problems with managing his pitching in-game, but I usually agreed with him, and it's tough when you don't know how a guy like Heilman's gonna do on a given night, and when Oliver cruises through five and then falls apart. I like Willie a lot as a guy, and I don't buy into these guys needing someone on their case all the time. Does it work? Well, it didn't work for Lou in Tampa, just like it won't work for Ozzie Guillen unless he gets great SP. That shit is meaningless: if you're good, you're good. If you're injured and average, a manager getting thrown out of a game won't change that. Torre got ripped for the way he handled guys like Farnsworth and Proctor, and the last time he got really fired up was 05 in Pittsburgh I think. The Yankees started winning back then because Giambi and Sheffield got hot, and Torre sat calmy for two seasons after that with the Yanks struggling early (it's what old teams do...nobody is saying fire Bobby Cox in Atlanta, and it's because old players get injured and that ruins plans) and getting healthy/hot and making the playoffs.
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 12:28:25 GMT -5
The timing might be a little strange, but the situation was terrible. The fact that his job was on the line from a series to series basis made this almost inevitable... guess Minaya (who I'm not a fan of either) thought that he might as well do it now and get it out of the way. Don't think it was really something Minaya wanted to do. From everything I've heard, that wasn't the case. But he's a moron, and I think he panicked. He knew he had to do it, and with the Mets winning 3 of 4, he didn't want them to sweep the Angels. At that point, since Willie's firing was 100000% inevitable, he was afraid he'd get eaten alive for the timing. So it was damage control; they wanted to do it a few weeks ago before the Mets got hot, and here they had the chance to do it while still under .500 and they went ahead. It's one of the more pathetic things I've seen an organization do. They showed no class, no respect. It's pathetic. They fired him late so nobody on in NY could report it, and they did it out of fear. They dragged the fucking guy to California, brought Minaya in once more and made Willie manage under those circumstances. And he won. Just like when Minaya was breathing down his neck last time and they bounced back to beat the Dodgers. You don't fire a manager when he's won 3 of 4, you don't get shady and fire him at midnight on a road trip, and you don't fire a manager when you'd be over .500 if your closer hadn't blown 3 games in three weeks. The problem with the Mets is a matter of who they're bringing in, not how they're managed. What did they do to improve the bullpen? Did they invest a lot of their season in a starting pitcher who can't hold up for more than 20 starts a season? Wasn't Alou a projected starter? Schneider? Delgado? All Minaya's guys. They're either old, unhealthy, or they fucking suck. I was actually impressed the Mets were over .500 when Willie has to start a different lineup everyday because of injury, when Wright is struggling, when Reyes started like shit, when the pen was terrible, when Oliver was pitching like shit. I mean, look what they were getting out of Pelfrey. His development this year has been huge. This is pathetic. The Mets are NOT a great team at all. Yeah, it's nice that Delgado is heating up, but they don't have a great lineup to date, and they're old. The bullpen is shaky, the SP is so inconsistent. The Yankees have this problem every year: when you're old, you get banged up; when you rely on the top of your order, you run hot and cold; when your pitching is mediocre, you need to win games with your offense. It takes a good amount of baseball for that recipe to click. Don't blame Willie when he can't get a starter with an ERA in the 3s other than Johan, when the lineup doesn't have .300 hitters and the team is .500. I know it's tough to say that because of last year's collapse, but my God, Minaya is one of the worst GMs in baseball, and I know it won't save the season to fire him for putting them in this situation, but he's at fault for the injuries, the Olivers, the Delgados that have had a lot to do with the Mets sucking (and yeah, I recognize that both guys are playing a lot better...good, it's not Willie's fault they sucked, so that's more reason to not fire him: his players are finally performing). Yeah the whole thing was sketchy, and you brought up some good points. But when were they supposed to move on from this mess? Let's face it, yeah they won a couple of games, but he already seemed to lost the players and most of the questions being posed in the clubhouse by the media were concerning Willie, not the team. The timing was bad but they had to move on some point. And yeah I agree, Minaya was a coward for pulling this off at 3 AM. And I also hate the way he's constructed this team. He's doing almost the same thing he did when he was in Montreal |
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Post by Funky George! on Jun 17, 2008 12:31:07 GMT -5
Don't think it was really something Minaya wanted to do. From everything I've heard, that wasn't the case. But he's a moron, and I think he panicked. He knew he had to do it, and with the Mets winning 3 of 4, he didn't want them to sweep the Angels. At that point, since Willie's firing was 100000% inevitable, he was afraid he'd get eaten alive for the timing. So it was damage control; they wanted to do it a few weeks ago before the Mets got hot, and here they had the chance to do it while still under .500 and they went ahead. It's one of the more pathetic things I've seen an organization do. They showed no class, no respect. It's pathetic. They fired him late so nobody on in NY could report it, and they did it out of fear. They dragged the fucking guy to California, brought Minaya in once more and made Willie manage under those circumstances. And he won. Just like when Minaya was breathing down his neck last time and they bounced back to beat the Dodgers. You don't fire a manager when he's won 3 of 4, you don't get shady and fire him at midnight on a road trip, and you don't fire a manager when you'd be over .500 if your closer hadn't blown 3 games in three weeks. The problem with the Mets is a matter of who they're bringing in, not how they're managed. What did they do to improve the bullpen? Did they invest a lot of their season in a starting pitcher who can't hold up for more than 20 starts a season? Wasn't Alou a projected starter? Schneider? Delgado? All Minaya's guys. They're either old, unhealthy, or they fucking suck. I was actually impressed the Mets were over .500 when Willie has to start a different lineup everyday because of injury, when Wright is struggling, when Reyes started like shit, when the pen was terrible, when Oliver was pitching like shit. I mean, look what they were getting out of Pelfrey. His development this year has been huge. This is pathetic. The Mets are NOT a great team at all. Yeah, it's nice that Delgado is heating up, but they don't have a great lineup to date, and they're old. The bullpen is shaky, the SP is so inconsistent. The Yankees have this problem every year: when you're old, you get banged up; when you rely on the top of your order, you run hot and cold; when your pitching is mediocre, you need to win games with your offense. It takes a good amount of baseball for that recipe to click. Don't blame Willie when he can't get a starter with an ERA in the 3s other than Johan, when the lineup doesn't have .300 hitters and the team is .500. I know it's tough to say that because of last year's collapse, but my God, Minaya is one of the worst GMs in baseball, and I know it won't save the season to fire him for putting them in this situation, but he's at fault for the injuries, the Olivers, the Delgados that have had a lot to do with the Mets sucking (and yeah, I recognize that both guys are playing a lot better...good, it's not Willie's fault they sucked, so that's more reason to not fire him: his players are finally performing). Yeah the whole thing was sketchy, and you brought up some good points. But when were they supposed to move on from this mess? Let's face it, yeah they won a couple of games, but he already seemed to lost the players and most of the questions being posed in the clubhouse by the media were concerning Willie, not the team. The timing was bad but they had to move on some point. And yeah I agree, Minaya was a coward for pulling this off at 3 AM. And I also hate the way he's constructed this team. He's doing almost the same thing he did when he was in Montreal Yeah, I agree, his relationship with the players sucked. But that has something to do with the fact that Delgado's an asshole. Minaya will probably save the season by bringing back Cliff Floyd. Definitely. |
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 12:35:01 GMT -5
yeah or he'll trade for a "veteran pitcher" like Livan Hernandez.... solid
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Post by Gossip Girl on Jun 17, 2008 19:16:42 GMT -5
Wow, what an explanation from the Habes. All very valid points. You can't blame Randolph for the fact that management is bringing in old washed up players.
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 19:53:40 GMT -5
I don't like Minaya at all, and I hope ownership mans up and fires him next. But still, Randolph needed to go... the fact that he was managing for his job every game was just straight up not a good situation.
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Post by Gossip Girl on Jun 17, 2008 19:55:42 GMT -5
A worse situation was firing him in the middle of the night.
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Jun 17, 2008 20:08:29 GMT -5
Well no shit it's a bad situation... I even said earlier the way Minaya went about firing Randolph was cowardly. But at least now the team doesn't have to play baseball having the uncertainty of the job security of a manager who they really didn't care for and the scrutiny of the situation looming over their heads. The way Randolph went out sucked, but I'm hardly unhappy that he's gone.
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