|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:11:36 GMT -5
LOL, I disagree with you, and Ive already posted like 5 times in this thread why youre wrong. Commish FTW. So how am I wrong? Um, re read all my posts I guess. I guess the biggest thing is nothing in FBB is predictable, so how can retro be predictable?
|
|
|
Post by Rocky on Dec 16, 2008 17:12:15 GMT -5
LOL, I disagree with you, and Ive already posted like 5 times in this thread why youre wrong. Commish FTW. So how am I wrong? Because of the idea of predictability. I posted a million examples in this thread already. Why was Pierce so much better than Kobe? Why did TD's rebounding deteriorate? Why did Shaq stay dominant for so long? How has Elton Brand maintained his ratings the way he has? Why did Rudy Gay suck? Why does Xavier Henry suck? Why was Dunleavy sick? Why does Conley sim so well? Spence clearly made Deron Williams suck from the beginning. His ratings were sick, his notes weren't good, and I remember hating him as a rookie (and just hoping I wasn't right when I got him). Etc. Predictability in ratings isn't actually possible. Of course it is to an extent, but that applies to fake players as well. The "top" fake players should develop better than those who won't. It's not as if the #1 pick is going to start busting and the 10th pick will become incredible each year. It's just that instead of Jerry West I'm looking at Bak and that's lame to me.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:13:39 GMT -5
There is a reason that I didn't join a league with fake players. I think it's stupid as hell to argue/build/obsess over players who don't exist. With that said, I know those opposed will say "there is a reason that I didn't join a retro league". That's fine. But, the real issue behind retro (predictability) isn't actually true. its not predictability necessarily though it is to an extent. its the lack of creativity and uniqueness. the cool thing about fake players is u know absolutely nothing about them. and considering the nba draft is a complete CRAP SHOOT 95% of the time retro isnt like that. when u take a guy who was a HOF'r in real life the odds of him being a total bust in a retro league is almost non existant. he may not be a star but u know u arent getting a total dud. as to where u have to have some REAL balls to take a guy like Big Country Bryant Reeves over a guy like Barkley and in a fake player draft those same players without the real names but iwth the same ratings might go in a different order. Also, there is no way to learn about NBA then for us to do a retro sim. regardless of how much or little the BBS players resemlble their NBA counterparts, we will all read up on players and learn about players. Fat Lever. Perfect example. I had heard about him being sick, but when I checked his stats I was like, WTF? he became an absolute stud in BBS1. Like, sick. Possible the best PG Ive ever created. People in the league at first were like how is this guy so good, then they saw his per 40 NBA stats and saw why.
|
|
|
Post by AllStar0608 on Dec 16, 2008 17:15:35 GMT -5
its not predictability necessarily though it is to an extent. its the lack of creativity and uniqueness. the cool thing about fake players is u know absolutely nothing about them. and considering the nba draft is a complete CRAP SHOOT 95% of the time retro isnt like that. when u take a guy who was a HOF'r in real life the odds of him being a total bust in a retro league is almost non existant. he may not be a star but u know u arent getting a total dud. as to where u have to have some REAL balls to take a guy like Big Country Bryant Reeves over a guy like Barkley and in a fake player draft those same players without the real names but iwth the same ratings might go in a different order. Also, there is no way to learn about NBA then for us to do a retro sim. regardless of how much or little the BBS players resemlble their NBA counterparts, we will all read up on players and learn about players. Fat Lever. Perfect example. I had heard about him being sick, but when I checked his stats I was like, WTF? he became an absolute stud in BBS1. Like, sick. Possible the best PG Ive ever created. People in the league at first were like how is this guy so good, then they saw his per 40 NBA stats and saw why. i knew all about fat lever cuz i have a shit load of his cards haha. best name evr
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:15:42 GMT -5
Fat FTW!
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:17:55 GMT -5
Also, there is no way to learn about NBA then for us to do a retro sim. regardless of how much or little the BBS players resemlble their NBA counterparts, we will all read up on players and learn about players. Fat Lever. Perfect example. I had heard about him being sick, but when I checked his stats I was like, WTF? he became an absolute stud in BBS1. Like, sick. Possible the best PG Ive ever created. People in the league at first were like how is this guy so good, then they saw his per 40 NBA stats and saw why. i knew all about fat lever cuz i have a shit load of his cards haha. best name evr So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A-
|
|
|
Post by GP on Dec 16, 2008 17:17:58 GMT -5
I like both, but I think I'd prefer retro.
|
|
|
Post by Rocky on Dec 16, 2008 17:19:12 GMT -5
i knew all about fat lever cuz i have a shit load of his cards haha. best name evr So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A- No because we want to create our own prospects! And god forbid these prospects be from a TV show or movie! This is serious stuff! We don't want to gimmick up the league! Oh wait, creating fake players and running a league through them is a gimmick in itself. Oops.
|
|
|
Post by Johnny "B. Good" Stamos on Dec 16, 2008 17:19:47 GMT -5
Retro!
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:19:51 GMT -5
Wouldnt it be sick to have Oscar Robertson? Wilt? Super stars that we dont always hear about like Bob Lanier, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld!
|
|
|
Post by AllStar0608 on Dec 16, 2008 17:20:48 GMT -5
i knew all about fat lever cuz i have a shit load of his cards haha. best name evr So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A- that would be FAR more interesting. but usually a league tries to go that way and then ends up getting bashed for not having the TRUE superstars be superstars and falls to that. id still be way more interested in fake players, but retro players with old guys who arent super famous would be a lot more fun.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:21:04 GMT -5
Jelly Bean Bryant!
|
|
|
Post by AllStar0608 on Dec 16, 2008 17:21:36 GMT -5
So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A- No because we want to create our own prospects! And god forbid these prospects be from a TV show or movie! This is serious stuff! We don't want to gimmick up the league! Oh wait, creating fake players and running a league through them is a gimmick in itself. Oops. lets try to be a fucking smart ass when im actually holding a legit discussion over it.
|
|
|
Post by noves on Dec 16, 2008 17:22:04 GMT -5
So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A- No because we want to create our own prospects! And god forbid these prospects be from a TV show or movie! This is serious stuff! We don't want to gimmick up the league! Oh wait, creating fake players and running a league through them is a gimmick in itself. Oops. It's fine to enjoy retro and dislike fake players, but this is the type of post that could piss people off. Running a league with fake players is just as fun as running it with real players, at least for a lot of GM's, no reason to mock it.
|
|
|
Post by AllStar0608 on Dec 16, 2008 17:22:14 GMT -5
Wouldnt it be sick to have Oscar Robertson? Wilt? Super stars that we dont always hear about like Bob Lanier, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld! oscar and wilt are superstars we dont hear about? if we go retro Dr J = Spur
|
|
|
Post by dj on Dec 16, 2008 17:22:40 GMT -5
Retro, fake... its all good. The really good thing about retro is you can look up stats and use that to try and guess how Spencer will make them. With fake players, all you can go by are draft notes...which dont really give you all that much insight.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:22:43 GMT -5
So why isnt that unique background? Wouldnt it be sick to have Anthony Mason be like the best SF in the league? A B B A B Or what about Shawn Bradley? Dominant shot blocker, passer and mid range shooter? C+ C+ C+ A B Sleepy Floyd, shooting guard in a point guard body? B A- B C+ D Tom Tolbert, he'd got a Kid haircut and he can board! C+ B C C+ A- that would be FAR more interesting. but usually a league tries to go that way and then ends up getting bashed for not having the TRUE superstars be superstars and falls to that. id still be way more interested in fake players, but retro players with old guys who arent super famous would be a lot more fun. Wed have all the players, and some real stars would still be sick, but it wouldnt just be the number 1 pick being better then the #2 pick an so on. Obviously there would be creativity. Thats the point. Shit we could even allow GMs to create some of the players based on their RL counterparts. That would allow for even more creativity.
|
|
|
Post by GP on Dec 16, 2008 17:23:01 GMT -5
Elgin Baylor...most underrated superstar in basketball history
|
|
|
Post by Rocky on Dec 16, 2008 17:23:02 GMT -5
No because we want to create our own prospects! And god forbid these prospects be from a TV show or movie! This is serious stuff! We don't want to gimmick up the league! Oh wait, creating fake players and running a league through them is a gimmick in itself. Oops. lets try to be a fucking smart ass when im actually holding a legit discussion over it. I wasn't at all talking to you. Aar got mad at me suggesting it'd be fun to have guys like Jesus Shuttlesworth in the league if we were going to go retro long-term.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:23:02 GMT -5
Wouldnt it be sick to have Oscar Robertson? Wilt? Super stars that we dont always hear about like Bob Lanier, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld! oscar and wilt are superstars we dont hear about? if we go retro Dr J = Spur LOL, can you read?
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix Phil on Dec 16, 2008 17:23:05 GMT -5
Because of the idea of predictability. I posted a million examples in this thread already. Why was Pierce so much better than Kobe? Why did TD's rebounding deteriorate? Why did Shaq stay dominant for so long? How has Elton Brand maintained his ratings the way he has? Why did Rudy Gay suck? Why does Xavier Henry suck? Why was Dunleavy sick? Why does Conley sim so well? Spence clearly made Deron Williams suck from the beginning. His ratings were sick, his notes weren't good, and I remember hating him as a rookie (and just hoping I wasn't right when I got him). Etc. Predictability in ratings isn't actually possible. Of course it is to an extent, but that applies to fake players as well. The "top" fake players should develop better than those who won't. It's not as if the #1 pick is going to start busting and the 10th pick will become incredible each year. It's just that instead of Jerry West I'm looking at Bak and that's lame to me. I said more than just predictability. That's not even the biggest beef I have with it. If prospects are created the same way they've been created for the past 15 seasons, I'd have no problem with that aspect of the league. There will always be an aura or stigma attached to all these retro players, but if GMs can look past name value than it will be OK. That's a big "if", though. I have a bigger problem with the blandness of the retro players. Going retro after real prospects supposedly run out has been done before PLENTY of times. The 60's players might be interesting but as it goes on it will just be another retro league. And Michael Jordan in 2045? It's just kind of corny.
|
|
|
Post by dj on Dec 16, 2008 17:23:21 GMT -5
go fake for awhile... then go retro...
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix Phil on Dec 16, 2008 17:24:07 GMT -5
Um, re read all my posts I guess. I guess the biggest thing is nothing in FBB is predictable, so how can retro be predictable? No one is 'right' or 'wrong'. You can go about it that way though, I guess
|
|
|
Post by AllStar0608 on Dec 16, 2008 17:24:34 GMT -5
that would be FAR more interesting. but usually a league tries to go that way and then ends up getting bashed for not having the TRUE superstars be superstars and falls to that. id still be way more interested in fake players, but retro players with old guys who arent super famous would be a lot more fun. Wed have all the players, and some real stars would still be sick, but it wouldnt just be the number 1 pick being better then the #2 pick an so on. Obviously there would be creativity. Thats the point. Shit we could even allow GMs to create some of the players based on their RL counterparts. That would allow for even more creativity. how about u start in the 60s and 70s and run from that for a long time. id just rather not go to the 80s and 90s. then by the time 60s and 70s run out ur probably moving onto a new bbs anyways.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer on Dec 16, 2008 17:24:41 GMT -5
No because we want to create our own prospects! And god forbid these prospects be from a TV show or movie! This is serious stuff! We don't want to gimmick up the league! Oh wait, creating fake players and running a league through them is a gimmick in itself. Oops. It's fine to enjoy retro and dislike fake players, but this is the type of post that could piss people off. Running a league with fake players is just as fun as running it with real players, at least for a lot of GM's, no reason to mock it. Honestly, its just as frustrating and lame to consistently hear that retro is boring and predictable when BBS did it well a couple years ago. I would venture to say was much worse at making draft files then and it still worked fine.
|
|