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Post by Speed Racer on Jan 16, 2009 18:16:14 GMT -5
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Post by Spencer on Jan 16, 2009 18:22:18 GMT -5
I love Gruden as a coach.
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Post by easy on Jan 16, 2009 18:53:11 GMT -5
I love Gruden as a coach. fuck you. Gruden was terrible. He won thanks to Dungy and Kiffin good riddance. |
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 16, 2009 20:17:17 GMT -5
I love Gruden as a coach. fuck you. Gruden was terrible. He won thanks to Dungy and Kiffin good riddance. I disagree. How many yrs did Dungy lose in playoffs with Bucs? Now that's not to say he was a bad coach because I also think he's a good coach. But a coach,at least on the professional level has a window of opportunity to win just like teams do. After a number of playoff failures(there is no set number,depends on team) the players I think start to doubt their coach as well as each other. I think a change in outlook,preperation etc is sometimes necessary to push a team over the top before the team quits on themself. I dont think they intentionally do it but after certain number of failures it's natural to look for scapegoats and have doubts creep in. I think that's what happened in TB. Gruden I have some problems with but I think for short time period he's a good coach for an underachieving team. Like in Dallas I think he'd be a good fit even though I like Shanahan better overall as a coach. |
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Post by easy on Jan 16, 2009 21:12:25 GMT -5
fuck you. Gruden was terrible. He won thanks to Dungy and Kiffin good riddance. I disagree. How many yrs did Dungy lose in playoffs with Bucs? Now that's not to say he was a bad coach because I also think he's a good coach. But a coach,at least on the professional level has a window of opportunity to win just like teams do. After a number of playoff failures(there is no set number,depends on team) the players I think start to doubt their coach as well as each other. I think a change in outlook,preperation etc is sometimes necessary to push a team over the top before the team quits on themself. I dont think they intentionally do it but after certain number of failures it's natural to look for scapegoats and have doubts creep in. I think that's what happened in TB. Gruden I have some problems with but I think for short time period he's a good coach for an underachieving team. Like in Dallas I think he'd be a good fit even though I like Shanahan better overall as a coach. I am a Buccaneers fan, I am telling you we won thanks to Dungy. Yes we may have had "playoff failures" but guess what WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS! We have missed the playoffs with Gruden 4 out of the last 6 seasons, that is unacceptable. Gruden is a mediocre coach who's been riding the "credibilty" of winning a Superbowl for way to long. I'm glad they fired Bruce Allen too. Bring back McKay and Dungy. |
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 16, 2009 22:37:46 GMT -5
Dungy got FUCKED in tampa. im a HUGE dungy fan and followed tampa very closely. if he had 1 more year with keyshawn they would have won with him. what teh fuck has gruden done there? the D has slowly lost players and he hasnt really replaced them with stars. he was an offensive minded coach and what the fuck has he developed offensively? also now with monte kiffin leaving he had NO CHANCE. dungy never should have been fired, gruden should have never been traded for (lol) and gruden should have been fired sooner since they did go get him.
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Post by dj on Jan 16, 2009 22:51:57 GMT -5
Shanny hasnt done much post Elway/TD. Was time for a change. He can script the first 15 plays for someone else now.
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Post by Speed Racer on Jan 16, 2009 22:57:03 GMT -5
Shanny hasnt done much post Elway/TD. Was time for a change. He can script the first 15 plays for someone else now. ... |
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 16, 2009 23:04:46 GMT -5
yeah waht does that mean? every team scripts their first 15ish plays on offense. they do this to try and get off to a fast start and take control of the game.
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Post by cjmjones008 on Jan 16, 2009 23:15:07 GMT -5
Gruden didn't do a good job in TB at all after year 1. I thought he would get another year though.
I've never understood why everyone considers Dungy this amazing coach. He made it to 1 NFC Championship game in TB. He was one and done 4 times with the Colts. He only made it to two AFC Championship Games there. His record is amazing but he had Hall of Famers Peyton Manning (probably the best ever), Marvin Harrison, and Bob Sanders. Freeney, Wayne, Glenn all potential HOF as well. If they hadn't had that amazing comeback on the Pats and won the SB people would be calling for him to get fired right now.
He is a very good coach, but people give him too much of a pass for being a nice guy
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 16, 2009 23:38:14 GMT -5
he's the reason that D became solid and thats a huge reason they made the SB run.
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 16, 2009 23:38:43 GMT -5
dungy develops players well, builds great chemistry, runs a professional team. he just does everything how u should.
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Post by dj on Jan 17, 2009 20:25:02 GMT -5
yeah waht does that mean? every team scripts their first 15ish plays on offense. they do this to try and get off to a fast start and take control of the game. The point is this was one of the few things he did well over the past 9 years... so he can go do it well somewhere else now... thankfully. |
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 17, 2009 21:09:47 GMT -5
Alright,I did a little research here.
Dungy
1996..6-10
1997..10-6 * lost in div rd
1998..8-8
1999..11-5 * lost in conf finals
2000..10-6 * lost in WC rd
2001..9-7 * lost in WC
Gruden
2002..12-4* won SB
2003..7-9
2004..5-11
2005..11-5 * lost in WC
2006..4-12
2007..9-7 * lost in WC
2008..9-7
Looks pretty similar to me. I like Dungy as a coach, but I think Gruden is a solid coach as well. TB was'nt exactly up and coming when Gruden got hired, as a matter of fact they were sliding according to record.
Which I think is about right, Sapp,Barber,and other members of that defense got old and/or left via FA after SB. I think they had one last run in them before they were broke up as a team. They knew that, now would they have gutted up for Dungy too? Who knows, but to say they were a team ready to become a dynasty if Dungy's not fired isnt accurate.
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Post by Spencer on Jan 17, 2009 22:07:10 GMT -5
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
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Post by easy on Jan 17, 2009 23:26:45 GMT -5
Alright,I did a little research here. Dungy 1996..6-10 1997..10-6 * lost in div rd 1998..8-8 1999..11-5 * lost in conf finals 2000..10-6 * lost in WC rd 2001..9-7 * lost in WC Gruden 2002..12-4* won SB 2003..7-9 2004..5-11 2005..11-5 * lost in WC 2006..4-12 2007..9-7 * lost in WC 2008..9-7 Looks pretty similar to me. I like Dungy as a coach, but I think Gruden is a solid coach as well. TB was'nt exactly up and coming when Gruden got hired, as a matter of fact they were sliding according to record. Which I think is about right, Sapp,Barber,and other members of that defense got old and/or left via FA after SB. I think they had one last run in them before they were broke up as a team. They knew that, now would they have gutted up for Dungy too? Who knows, but to say they were a team ready to become a dynasty if Dungy's not fired isnt accurate. Do a little more re-search and compare the team Dungy inherited and the one Gruden got. Extremely different. They were sliding because Gruden let them slide. Sapp,Barber, Brooks were old yes but Brooks and Barber are still playing pretty damn close to Pro Bowl levels! Sapp was overrated and I'll be the first to admit to that one. There's no excuse to Gruden's failure. Our defenses were ALWAYS solid thanks to Kiffin. It's no coincidence that our defense started playing so poorly when Kiffin announced he was leaving... I don't understand how you guys think a coach who loves to have ten 40 year old QBs on his team is considered good. Come on, he traded for Plummer who retired. Gruden's an idiot, I hated the hiring since day one. |
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 18, 2009 11:56:07 GMT -5
Alright,I did a little research here. Dungy 1996..6-10 1997..10-6 * lost in div rd 1998..8-8 1999..11-5 * lost in conf finals 2000..10-6 * lost in WC rd 2001..9-7 * lost in WC Gruden 2002..12-4* won SB 2003..7-9 2004..5-11 2005..11-5 * lost in WC 2006..4-12 2007..9-7 * lost in WC 2008..9-7 Looks pretty similar to me. I like Dungy as a coach, but I think Gruden is a solid coach as well. TB was'nt exactly up and coming when Gruden got hired, as a matter of fact they were sliding according to record. Which I think is about right, Sapp,Barber,and other members of that defense got old and/or left via FA after SB. I think they had one last run in them before they were broke up as a team. They knew that, now would they have gutted up for Dungy too? Who knows, but to say they were a team ready to become a dynasty if Dungy's not fired isnt accurate. Do a little more re-search and compare the team Dungy inherited and the one Gruden got. Extremely different. They were sliding because Gruden let them slide. Sapp,Barber, Brooks were old yes but Brooks and Barber are still playing pretty damn close to Pro Bowl levels! Sapp was overrated and I'll be the first to admit to that one. There's no excuse to Gruden's failure. Our defenses were ALWAYS solid thanks to Kiffin. It's no coincidence that our defense started playing so poorly when Kiffin announced he was leaving... I don't understand how you guys think a coach who loves to have ten 40 year old QBs on his team is considered good. Come on, he traded for Plummer who retired. Gruden's an idiot, I hated the hiring since day one. He won the SB with the same players Chris. Same roster damn near. Brad Johnson was still the QB when Gruden took over he won the SB with. If you dont like Gruden that's fine, he has his faults for all to see. But to imply that Dungy would have kept this team as a SB contender had he stayed is wrong. The trend is directly opposite that actually. And as CJ stated he went to Indy and while they have been good they have'nt been a dynasty and I dont think there's any question he has more talent there than Gruden has ever had. Manning is a top 2 QB. If he's not the best he's behind Brady only I think. They have a good defense,had edgerrin James in his prime as well as Marvin Harrison and a good OL. They are missing a dependable RB now which is their weakness but still have enuff talent to win it all I think without question. I guess I take issue with you painting this rosy piture if Dungy had stayed which I just have a hard time seeing. |
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 18, 2009 12:43:37 GMT -5
Alright,I did a little research here. Dungy 1996..6-10 1997..10-6 * lost in div rd 1998..8-8 1999..11-5 * lost in conf finals 2000..10-6 * lost in WC rd 2001..9-7 * lost in WC Gruden 2002..12-4* won SB 2003..7-9 2004..5-11 2005..11-5 * lost in WC 2006..4-12 2007..9-7 * lost in WC 2008..9-7 Looks pretty similar to me. I like Dungy as a coach, but I think Gruden is a solid coach as well. TB was'nt exactly up and coming when Gruden got hired, as a matter of fact they were sliding according to record. Which I think is about right, Sapp,Barber,and other members of that defense got old and/or left via FA after SB. I think they had one last run in them before they were broke up as a team. They knew that, now would they have gutted up for Dungy too? Who knows, but to say they were a team ready to become a dynasty if Dungy's not fired isnt accurate. LMAO, sliding? they had 2 of their hardest schedules those last 2 years and were in the middle of a new offensive scheme. gruden was given a MAJOR gift and he won with it then slowly let the team get shitty. |
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 18, 2009 15:00:35 GMT -5
The roster was aging. They were not gonna keep playing at that level.
Their record had dropped Dungy's last 2 yrs. How can you say they were getting better?
Gruden was'nt the GM anyway was he? Was'nt the GM that fired Dungy still in place?
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Post by easy on Jan 18, 2009 18:42:46 GMT -5
The roster was aging. They were not gonna keep playing at that level. Their record had dropped Dungy's last 2 yrs. How can you say they were getting better? Gruden was'nt the GM anyway was he? Was'nt the GM that fired Dungy still in place? What's with this roster aging crap? Everyone was in their prime and still had another 3-5 good seasons left in them(i.e. Ronde Barber(active) Derrick Brooks(active), John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Anthony McFarland, etc.) So yes, they were getting better. |
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 18, 2009 21:12:56 GMT -5
The roster was aging. They were not gonna keep playing at that level. Their record had dropped Dungy's last 2 yrs. How can you say they were getting better? Gruden was'nt the GM anyway was he? Was'nt the GM that fired Dungy still in place? What's with this roster aging crap? Everyone was in their prime and still had another 3-5 good seasons left in them(i.e. Ronde Barber(active) Derrick Brooks(active), John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Anthony McFarland, etc.) So yes, they were getting better. Sapp was 30 and aging fast,Brooks and Barber were what 28,29? Still in their prime I guess yea. Brad Johnson was mid thirties,Dunn was gone. But for the hell of it lets say they were still in their prime. Why was their record getting worse those yrs not better? And you didnt answer my question about the GM. Did they have the same GM after hiring Gruden? If so is'nt it really more his fault they faded than Gruden's or Dungy's? |
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 18, 2009 21:26:15 GMT -5
they had a harder schedule and had a bit more injuries in dungy's final 2 years. plus they changed the offensive scheme when they got Keyshawn. You are smoking something.
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GMGreggor
All-Star
Houston Rockets
Posts: 5,726
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Post by GMGreggor on Jan 18, 2009 22:28:04 GMT -5
they had a harder schedule and had a bit more injuries in dungy's final 2 years. plus they changed the offensive scheme when they got Keyshawn. You are smoking something. Why am I smoking something? Their schedule was harder howso? Thats a copout to me. How did they change their off scheme? I dont remember it ever being much more than 3 yds and a cloud of dust,dont make turnovers and let the D win it pretty much. They did'nt change their scheme till Gruden came and initiated his version of the west coast offense. |
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Post by AllStar0608 on Jan 18, 2009 22:32:55 GMT -5
well obviously you are going to look like you win if you completely ignore the facts.
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