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Post by Rocky on Dec 11, 2008 13:15:32 GMT -5
A dead player tearing up the league ISN'T unrealistic though? Hahaha. That makes absolutely no sense. If we go retro, depending on what year we start at, the majority of the people will be dead, so what's your point? The realism comes in the name, and the ability to in someway "relate" to the person you're drafting or at least have some background. The story-lines are limitless and for me, I'd much rather enjoy drafting someone I knew existed instead of someone fake. Martinez's point is completely valid. I love having the ability to "relate" to the player, even if I never saw him play. I don't mind if we continue with the creation classes but retro definitely has its advantages.
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Post by Speed Racer on Dec 11, 2008 13:15:56 GMT -5
A dead player tearing up the league ISN'T unrealistic though? Hahaha. That makes absolutely no sense. If we go retro, depending on what year we start at, the majority of the people will be dead, so what's your point? The realism comes in the name, and the ability to in someway "relate" to the person you're drafting or at least have some background. The story-lines are limitless and for me, I'd much rather enjoy drafting someone I knew existed instead of someone fake. I see nothing interesting about watching someone like Len Bias dominating. It's just stupid and completely unrealistic.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:16:17 GMT -5
and there isn't with retro players? Imagine Arvidas Sabonis if he were able to come into the league when he was 23? Or Bobby Hurley didn't get into a car accident? There are SO many more opportunities to add to story-lines to REAL players. What if Len Bias never died? Reggie Lewis? etc. I mean, I don't see what the problem is? We can still have 4-5 guys making draft profiles on retro players and adding any storyline they feel fit. Though, a $10,000,000 buy out clause on a Korean player? That is unrealistic.That's not unrealistic, Martinez. It's completely realistic. $10 mm is a high number, but that's the only borderline unrealistic part about it. And I don't care about being realistic. Nobody here does. You want to keep ratings realistic, and salaries realistic, but beyond that, who cares? That's not a legitimate argument in a sim league. If you're not going to admit there's a lot more opportunity to create unique cases, story lines, unknowns by doing what we're doing now than there is with retro, there is no point to this argument. It's a waste of time. You know retro can't offer those things. We know the names and their careers, and that limits the creativity and appeal a ton. As I stated, you can have limitless story-lines with those retro players that "could have been."
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 13:16:25 GMT -5
A dead player tearing up the league ISN'T unrealistic though? Hahaha. That makes absolutely no sense. If we go retro, depending on what year we start at, the majority of the people will be dead, so what's your point?The realism comes in the name, and the ability to in someway "relate" to the person you're drafting or at least have some background. The story-lines are limitless and for me, I'd much rather enjoy drafting someone I knew existed instead of someone fake. That's his point.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:16:57 GMT -5
That makes absolutely no sense. If we go retro, depending on what year we start at, the majority of the people will be dead, so what's your point? The realism comes in the name, and the ability to in someway "relate" to the person you're drafting or at least have some background. The story-lines are limitless and for me, I'd much rather enjoy drafting someone I knew existed instead of someone fake. I see nothing interesting about watching someone like Len Bias dominating. It's just stupid and completely unrealistic. So why is it more interesting to see Duck Young Bak dominating and what makes that any less stupid?
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:17:14 GMT -5
That makes absolutely no sense. If we go retro, depending on what year we start at, the majority of the people will be dead, so what's your point?The realism comes in the name, and the ability to in someway "relate" to the person you're drafting or at least have some background. The story-lines are limitless and for me, I'd much rather enjoy drafting someone I knew existed instead of someone fake. That's his point. It's a dumb point.
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Post by Speed Racer on Dec 11, 2008 13:17:46 GMT -5
I don't understand how someone can relate with Len Bias or Bo Kimble running the league in 2028. I just struggle with that concept.
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Post by Rocky on Dec 11, 2008 13:18:02 GMT -5
Basketball Diaries! Is it good?
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 13:18:12 GMT -5
You're arguing for realism when retro would have guys from 70s and 80s playing in 2020, when in reality, they'd be dead. Not a dumb point.
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 13:19:34 GMT -5
Whatever. I love what we're doing and it's completely obvious that this draft class inspired the most activity and interest that a draft class has in a long time. Look at the profiles and the articles and try to argue against that.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:20:29 GMT -5
You're arguing for realism when retro would have guys from 70s and 80s playing in 2020, when in reality, they'd be dead. Not a dumb point. You're taking bits and pieces of what I'm saying. Go back to my very first post. While I did say it is a bit unrealistic but it's MORE realistic than creating fake players I can't relate to. I would LOVE to have Len Bias on my team dominating because I knew of his life. We can make storylines with buy-outs and maybe even have story lines of people dying on draft night. Imagine you drafted a "Len Bias" with the #1 pick or whatever and he died? I think that would be an awesome concept to have in this league but I'm pretty sure it'd get shot down quick.
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aar
All-Star
Seattle SuperSonics
Posts: 6,306
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Post by aar on Dec 11, 2008 13:21:10 GMT -5
Jesus Shuttlesworth, William Gates/Arthur Agee would be SO SICK. I would personally hate that
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 13:21:45 GMT -5
You're arguing for realism when retro would have guys from 70s and 80s playing in 2020, when in reality, they'd be dead. Not a dumb point. You're taking bits and pieces of what I'm saying. Go back to my very first post. While I did say it is a bit unrealistic but it's MORE realistic than creating fake players I can't relate to. I would LOVE to have Len Bias on my team dominating because I knew of his life. We can make storylines with buy-outs and maybe even have story lines of people dying on draft night. Imagine you drafted a "Len Bias" with the #1 pick or whatever and he died? I think that would be an awesome concept to have in this league but I'm pretty sure it'd get shot down quick. Yuck. Especially since we have the Contract Year.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:22:02 GMT -5
Whatever. I love what we're doing and it's completely obvious that this draft class inspired the most activity and interest that a draft class has in a long time. Look at the profiles and the articles and try to argue against that. 2013 and 2014 drafts are a moot point. The 2012 draft has more posts then the current 2015 draft.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:22:30 GMT -5
You're taking bits and pieces of what I'm saying. Go back to my very first post. While I did say it is a bit unrealistic but it's MORE realistic than creating fake players I can't relate to. I would LOVE to have Len Bias on my team dominating because I knew of his life. We can make storylines with buy-outs and maybe even have story lines of people dying on draft night. Imagine you drafted a "Len Bias" with the #1 pick or whatever and he died? I think that would be an awesome concept to have in this league but I'm pretty sure it'd get shot down quick. Yuck. Especially since we have the Contract Year. To real? That sucks.
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Post by Speed Racer on Dec 11, 2008 13:23:21 GMT -5
You're arguing for realism when retro would have guys from 70s and 80s playing in 2020, when in reality, they'd be dead. Not a dumb point. You're taking bits and pieces of what I'm saying. Go back to my very first post. While I did say it is a bit unrealistic but it's MORE realistic than creating fake players I can't relate to. I would LOVE to have Len Bias on my team dominating because I knew of his life. We can make storylines with buy-outs and maybe even have story lines of people dying on draft night. Imagine you drafted a "Len Bias" with the #1 pick or whatever and he died? I think that would be an awesome concept to have in this league but I'm pretty sure it'd get shot down quick.That's a brilliant idea. Who doesn't love uncontrollable, unfair disadvantages placed on a franchise for absolutely no reason? Sounds like fun.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:23:53 GMT -5
You're taking bits and pieces of what I'm saying. Go back to my very first post. While I did say it is a bit unrealistic but it's MORE realistic than creating fake players I can't relate to. I would LOVE to have Len Bias on my team dominating because I knew of his life. We can make storylines with buy-outs and maybe even have story lines of people dying on draft night. Imagine you drafted a "Len Bias" with the #1 pick or whatever and he died? I think that would be an awesome concept to have in this league but I'm pretty sure it'd get shot down quick.That's a brilliant idea. Who doesn't love uncontrollable, unfair disadvantages placed on a franchise for absolutely no reason? Sounds like fun. That's life nothing is fair.
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Post by Rocky on Dec 11, 2008 13:23:56 GMT -5
Martinez is arguing with two people who love the current concept. That's fine, but his argument isn't absurd at all. Forget about "realism" in terms of the years. Obviously nothing will be realistic since it's 20 years from now. But, keeping the draft classes with real (retro) players and still working in storylines is a completely valid opinion for him to have. My worry with these draft classes is that yeah right now people are hyped about making them, but what happens when people slack on it? And we get shitty write-ups on players we know nothing about? Or if Spence can't write a long draft notes for whatever reason? The creation class is cool because I want to draft Jackie Moon but it's not a perfect system.
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Post by Rocky on Dec 11, 2008 13:24:14 GMT -5
Jesus Shuttlesworth, William Gates/Arthur Agee would be SO SICK. I would personally hate that Why?
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 13:24:22 GMT -5
Whatever. I love what we're doing and it's completely obvious that this draft class inspired the most activity and interest that a draft class has in a long time. Look at the profiles and the articles and try to argue against that. 2013 and 2014 drafts are a moot point. The 2012 draft has more posts then the current 2015 draft. WTF are you talking about? There's no moot point. It generated more interest than either class did. Here's the link for the 2012 draft forum: fbb2.proboards53.com/index.cgi?board=12draftLook at the player profiles and their responses. Then go look at the 2015 draft forum. Yeah, ok, 2012 generated more interest? On what planet? Because the actual draft thread had more posts? We're halfway through, and all those posts are, are a bunch of people complaining about who isn't on or hasn't sent a list.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:26:30 GMT -5
2013 and 2014 drafts are a moot point. The 2012 draft has more posts then the current 2015 draft. WTF are you talking about? There's no moot point. It generated more interest than either class did. Here's the link for the 2012 draft forum: fbb2.proboards53.com/index.cgi?board=12draftLook at the player profiles and their responses. Then go look at the 2015 draft forum. Yeah, ok, 2012 generated more interest? On what planet? Because the actual draft thread had more posts? We're halfway through, and all those posts are, are a bunch of people complaining about who isn't on or hasn't sent a list. see Mark's post, the activity isn't going to be the same every season, people will eventually get bored with this concept too.
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Post by easy on Dec 11, 2008 13:27:28 GMT -5
WTF are you talking about? There's no moot point. It generated more interest than either class did. Here's the link for the 2012 draft forum: fbb2.proboards53.com/index.cgi?board=12draftLook at the player profiles and their responses. Then go look at the 2015 draft forum. Yeah, ok, 2012 generated more interest? On what planet? Because the actual draft thread had more posts? We're halfway through, and all those posts are, are a bunch of people complaining about who isn't on or hasn't sent a list. see Mark's post, the activity isn't going to be the same every season, people will eventually get bored with this concept too. and while we haven't had alot in this BBS, didn't we have similar situations like Terrele Pryor? Where he may or may not come in the BBS for the first 2 seasons or at all?
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Post by Phoenix Phil on Dec 11, 2008 13:48:17 GMT -5
Spence said I can start a discussion about the league going retro in 2020. I don't like it - I like seeing unique, random players become good in leagues that last a really long time. It's much more fun to me than seeing Michael Jordan or Wilt dominate a league in 2027. I'm making myself the founder of the Anti-Retro Group. I know some of you are in favor of it, but that's what we are here to discuss. I'm in favor of going with completely random draft files - maybe continue something where a group of GM's creates prospects for each draft? It makes for some unique players and lessens the burden on Spence. Anything but retro! Join the Anti-Retro Group! I completely agree with this post.
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aar
All-Star
Seattle SuperSonics
Posts: 6,306
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Post by aar on Dec 11, 2008 13:50:09 GMT -5
Whatever. I love what we're doing and it's completely obvious that this draft class inspired the most activity and interest that a draft class has in a long time. Look at the profiles and the articles and try to argue against that. 2013 and 2014 drafts are a moot point. The 2012 draft has more posts then the current 2015 draft. Yes, but the 2012 draft was all original players and most of the 2015 draft were FBB prospects
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Post by Funky George! on Dec 11, 2008 14:03:17 GMT -5
2013 and 2014 drafts are a moot point. The 2012 draft has more posts then the current 2015 draft. Yes, but the 2012 draft was all original players and most of the 2015 draft were FBB prospects It wasn't more active. That's the only moot point there.
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